Curse

xOdin · Jan 20, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

After 9 hours of consecutive play the 1st day of testing i can conlude that.

Broken = Not at all, I liked the alter matches more. My team always gets ganked, even after we roll through one team entirely.

Burial Mounds = About time it was added once again

Scarred Earth = Best update anet has made to hero's ascent

Courtyard = Courtyard is nice w/ new game type bcuz of priests.

Halls = I liked the alter match better bcuz of possible larger fame. Halls is too long, spent like 12 mins in vault.

I think more 1v1 Maps needed to added bcuz of new halls type. (Compensate for less fame)

Solution: Make HA the way it was in the golden days, 8v8. No New game types ect..

Note: Change the capping mechanisim to allow more diversity in the crappy 6v6 halls. ie no song or stability needed.

The Mighty Odin

guildwars101 · Jan 20, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

i like ha and i like that you removed scarred earth but beyond that i cant say much id like to see it eaiser to get fame in HA the high fame people will always be the high fame people because only the high fame people get groups that win and therefore get more fame
so basically make it eaiser to get fame and id say nerf sf its used way to commonly i know but message above is confusing but i think ull get it

iya · Jan 20, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

- Burial Mounds: great to see it back, its a good map but feels like a waste of space to only have it as 2 teams.
- Scarred Earth: 1/2 of me likes it 1/2 of me wants it back so theres more maps before HoH.
- Altar maps: i hate the new design, i loved the old altar design, this isnt about king of the hill, its a gank fest.
- 3 versions of HoH: its a good plan, but the relic design really looks too frustrating to play. If the intention was to remove holding builds, make HoH 5 teams again.
- skill balances: i dont like the fact that hexes were buffed but DH nerfed. Why was RaO buffed it was good as it is? why encourage a non-melee profession to play melee? (RaO isnt used in non-melee except spear SOMETIMES, in pvp).

Suggestions:
- please give warriors the melee attention they deserve. critical chop doesnt need such a long recharge, lets have the REAL melee classes more important than non-melee classes using melee weapons.
- give dervishes a nerf slightly, 80hp+ criticals are just not funny.
- re-introduce 8v8, everyone wants it back!!

- make HoH 5 teams again with the classic altar system. it can possibly stay 3 teams but at least the old system must stay. broken tower can remain a gankfest but only if its 2 teams.

thank you arenanet for at least showing interest in HA!!

EDIT: to all those that think r3 is obsolete, remember this: before rank titles existed it was only r3+ r6+ and r9+ teams, that way r3s could team up with r4 and r5. nowadays if ur r3 u can only team up with similarly experienced and less experienced r3 players. If arenanet wants to make HA an arena that is newbie-friendly they should disable hero titles being displayed in the battle isles, giving r3 ppl a chance to team up with r4s and r5s, instead of making it 6v6 to "chase away" veterans (which is what i've heard).

Julen · Jan 20, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Changes are utter crap

First of all, you promised us skill balance but you barely changed anything. The things you did do was boost one thing and nerf the counter to it. Good thinking there!

The score charts suck, all you have to do is deliver a final blow when the other team did all the work.

I understand the fact you wanted to do something about holding builds, but dont you think removing altar capping alltogether was a bit harsch?

Murder ball thingy. Seriously, i want some of the stuff you guys were smoking when coming up with that idea.

AB capping altars. I cant recall anyone ever asking for something like this

Nice to see burial mouths back in rotation though, but i dont see why another perfectly good map is gone now. All you had to do with scarred was remove the lever and add some sort of timer in there so people dont have to wait for hours. When you break your arm, do you expect it to be amputated in hospital? its more or less what you did there.

My personal opinion is that you didnt put too much thought into this at all. You just made it an even bigger scrubfest.

I for one will not be playing anymore this weekend cause i find it even worse than before.

*thumbs up*

Lykan · Jan 20, 2007, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Burial Mounds is great
No Scarred is ok.
kill count Gankfest '07 is stupid and just promotes mindless aoe button spamming builds where if you try to play a build with intelligence, ie mesmers or int rangers you cannot win because the aoe spammers win hands down.

My suggestion. Keep Randomisation of HoH and apply same to all alter maps, replace Kill Count with Hold the Alter so there are still 3 random options.

Bring Back 8v8 omg!

AYss · Jan 20, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Burial Mounds: Cool

Scarred Earth: Actually I like this one, especially after the update that brought the levelers.
capping altars: Stiupid idea.

I'd write more if I played more... But unfortunately I can't. I keep getting damn err07s. ATM I can't even load guild hall (stuck on 100% and err07 a while later)... gee f gee.

Horace The Great · Jan 20, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I think this would be nice:
-Keep all maps (yes, also Scarred Earth and Burial Mounds)
-8vs8
-Back to the old system
-Back to long timers (Broken Tower, Courtyard, Halls of Heroes)
-Back to 5 teams in halls
-1vs1 on Broken Tower

Life Bringer · Jan 20, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Very happy to see the end of scared and very happy to see the return of burial mounds. The new mechanics for broken tower is kind of fun makes a nice change but for courtyard and hoh I think it is horrible and I hope they are reverted back to the traditional altar mechanic. In the end though the big thing that the vast majority of people wanted addressed was the return of 8v8v8 which has not happended so I am dissappointed overal.

Monkity Monk · Jan 20, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Return of Burial Mounds:Great idea very fun map, now makes broken tower worth the effort
Removal of Scarred Earth: Simply Awesome
Other HA changes: These altar map changes i think would be better suited outside of HoH keep them on courtyard and broken tower, but just leave HoH the way its always been. I dont ever care to play that relic run in HoH ever again

Son of Urza · Jan 20, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Basically, it looks like people aren't *too* happy about Kill Count. It seems that it might be a little better if it was 1v1, thus preventing kill stealing. Possibly you could make a "hold the altar" match where you have to hold the altar by having more people there, AB-style? That way, if you killed off another team's members, you'd have an easier time, because there'd be less people trying to steal your altar. People definitely don't like maps that give the advantage to AoE gank spammers.

KEEP the random-style HoH, though, even if you change what the styles are. If there's only one win condition, builds WILL exploit it, because that's how you win. Even if it's not termed as an actual "exploit," they will be designed around it.

Nurse With Wound · Jan 20, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Changes are in good direction.

My comments

1) Burial Mounds returns! At last!
2) Kill count on broken tower - great idea, with killcount for this map! The only suggestion I have for this one is to make in 1v1 again. And decrease the timer to 5-7 mins.
3) Scarred Earth gone - Im indifferent to this one...... that map wasnt bad tbh.
4) Courtyard - I like the killcount here.... Capping an altar and putting up fertile wasnt anything that required a lot of skill.
5) HOH - I , for one would like HOH to remain the same.... Altar king of the hill, but anyway - there is a problem with Murder Ball - its simply broken. 60 seconds for a cap? Ward agains foes + bodyblockers with a brain and its gg. Either make the timer longer, or add some effects ( health degen to bodyblockers? ) that wont allow to block forever.

Also, 8 v 8 has to return!

nivelis · Jan 20, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

There should be some verification. Ppl jump to the forum and some of them didnt really played HA or played brokent tower/other maps only once. Hope forum comments are small percent in design team decisions. There are lot of players who enjoy and play new system but they will not write anything on forums. And there are lot of players who made 2-3 runs and complain -.-

After more than 8 hours of testing my comments:

Scarred Earth - Best change in this update. Remove it forever!!!

Burrial Mounds - Very like it. Increase area of obelisk dmg - usually its not usable now.

Broken Tower - Like it. Reduce time to 6-7min. Make more space near altar and on the way to altar. Overall - make more space.

Courtyard - Very like it. Reduce time to 8min (this map needs more time than broken)

broken & courtyard - Forced ppl to actually play some tactic, run, split, rush in, fall back, sneak attack, etc. - so its really exciting now, it bringed tactics and skill back to HA!!! Its the right direction, just need more testing and observing to make it perfect

Halls of Heroes - general change, random conditions,etc - excellent!
- altars caping option - works fine and force ppl to make splits, manoeuvres, etc. so I liked it very much
- relics run - looks like map don't fit it (easy to block, one-way), but played it only once

Other important notes so far:
- missing altar/holding map on the way to HoH to force ppl ballance more their builds. Maybe make broken tower as it was before and change courtyard to new way
-disable map skips (if you bring back 1 holding map) to force ppl actually play all maps and make their builds fiting them all
-maybe even bring back old HoH altar cap as 4th option (kill count, murder ball, capture points, altar cap)??? For me it would be great and total ballance
-disable self kill before fight starts - its not fair jagged got 40sec advantage
-looks like necro and ritu need special atention now (skills, builds) - already met some crazy dmg/degen builds (200+ hit from ritu? cmn)
-there should be option for party leader to kick party member hero from team

Overall skill changes: like it
-spiritual pain - great nerf, good condition change
Also thanks for nerfing adrenal spike (critical chop, etc.) - hated to see so many ppl play only that. Meta should be ballanced to make ppl play different spikes/builds, etc. so don't complain about it!
-blinding surge - more fair, its ok now

Some skills I think that still need to be changed:
-spoil victor - still to good
-sandstorm- nerf it, its too good... maybe it should be 25 mana
-fear me 6 adren or recharge time, it shouldn't be so spammable
-2 skills to fight with paragons are not enough. Not sure but so far looks like paragons still have huge advantage (zergway, 6 paragon way)

KEEP 6v6!!!

Ok I go back to testing to write more for you

sp3ct3r · Jan 20, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

- new win conditions on the altar maps: like it
- removal of the old "cap and hold" win condition from the whole HA map cycle: don't like it, because it removes an entire dimension from the HA world: interrupt wars. (this dimension was broke when song of concentration came out, and now its gone for sure) > my suggestion on this is, to add an additional condition to HoH map, so that you have to "Cap and Hold" just like the old style; also if this change would go ahead, i would nerf song of concentration so that it doesn't affect ghostly hero.

- Still, after all these new changes to the maps i think that having only 6 players team, will make it so that the metagame will shift to pressure or spike builds, wich is good, but with 8v8 i think we would have more options wich is always better

Snype · Jan 20, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Hoh
Murderball: A giant mess. Can't cap anything, shows no skill/teamwork. It is
like having Alliance battles be relic runs.
Kill Count: Takes all of the traditional things that players love about Halls
away. It only creates a metagame full of spikes and high pressure builds.
"King of the Hill": Just everyone running around. Makes AoE rule everything.
SUGGESTION: Make HoH the old way of holding. It was not extremely "easy"
to hold.

Broken Tower and Courtyard: Creates a giant fest of running around, or a
giant kill fest. Reduce time to 5/6 minutes, and make more of an incentive
to cap.

Burial and Scarred Earth Swap: Nice move, no suggestions.

Bish of [Bite] · Jan 20, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Burial Mounds: Like the return

Scarred Earth: Keep it. The more the better

Other HA changes: Map times = too long

Don't like the point system. It favors spike teams and doesn't favor pressure teams. I would like to see 1v1 deathmatch at HoH personally. It would favor the truly skilled players, rather than those that are lucky enough to be in the lead when the game ends.

Shortyafter · Jan 20, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

-General Opinion: Love the new HA.

-6v6: I was avidly for 8v8, but after going on a decent run and holding halls, I started to enjoy 6v6. The new game modes, particularly in HoH, work great in 6v6. I can't imagine them in 8v8 though.

-'Murder Ball': Don't like this form of HoH. This is pretty much the only thing I'm not enjoying. It's just a bodyblock/cluster/AoE fest.

infymys · Jan 20, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Broken Tower and Courtyard: Scrubfest. Pick a color, gank away and hope you get the kill shot to get that point. Caters to the Searing Flames/Sandstorm button mashers. It could work in Courtyard but chasing a team(s) in circles in Broken Tower for ten minutes is a joke.

Burial Mounds: About time. Two teams only, meh.

Scarred Earth: Just bring it back without the lever.

HoH: The random objectives is a great idea since it promotes diversity but then again, having only 6 players kind of cripples that. Murderball is just bodyblocking/ward/gale fest for whoever gets the first cap. At least the chest gives everybody on the winning team an item.

Tiyuri · Jan 20, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Broken tower + Courtyard:

These are absolutely horrible as they stand, which is a shame because Anet was on the right track but made one mistake - 3 teams. As long as a map has 3 teams it will have a HUGE element of luck. Guild groups get ganked first by the other two teams. Well known players get ganked first. It leads to a frustrating experience where you feel cheated out of victories and skill means nothing.

Broken tower and Courtyard need to be 1 v 1, the new mechanic will be great in a 1v1 setup and will reward the team with the most SKILL.

Hall of Heroes: Nice, however the relic run mechanic is horrible, 60 seconds is nowhere near long enough to cap, especially with teams have foes etc. The bug with relic running discussed by mental letci still exists and it's just a buggy joke right now. To improve this map I suggest an aura of the relic, where holding the relic will cause X damage per second to adjacent foes. Players should have to use skills to slow someone down, bodyblocking is a broken mechanic, a game of lag and bugs.

Halls should remain 3 teams as it requires an element of luck to stop a good team holding forever. However every single map on the way to halls should reward SKILL, not luck, not relying on the skill of another random team. YOUR teams skill. Going through the maps and gameplay mechanics and looking for and correcting any element of luck will improve things no end.

Last night for example, the first 3 times we got to broken, we were INSTANTLY, from the very start, before we even got near the alter, ganked by two teams, because we're a reasonably well known guild group. This was tireing and frustrating and we felt like giving up. It wasn't fun, feeling cheated out of victories is not fun, people "stealing" kills is not fun, being ganked because you're the superior team on the field is certainly not fun.

For the love of god, make all the maps before halls 1v1, or at the VERY least, make broken tower 1v1 because its so early on.

oh and 8v8 please, 6v6 problems still plague HA.

Congratulations Anet for being on the right track here, here's hoping you make a couple of simple fundemental changes to make it perfect.

Hambones · Jan 20, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Return of Burial Mounds:

love it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Removal of Scarred Earth:

i hated this map from the beginning.. what made it worse was the lever. you would be fighting a team, they had 2 people up (let's say they both had a res), then the other team would come in and gank you.. that team would eventually win. all i can say, good riddance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Other HA changes:

10 minute matches on BT and courtyard... no point. this whole point system is lame too, if i wanted to AB i would go AB, but please leave HA out of this. AB stays in AB, i don't think this whole point system (aka deathmatch - just run around, kill stuff, get points) is any fun either.

why move the chest in HoH and all this other stuff.. not really that big, but why.

the three random game modes don't sound any fun at all, the relic mode is really hard with 2 teams attempting to bodyblock you.. can't even get a relic through. this whole capping system is bs too, like i said above. leave AB in AB, leave halls alone.

anet could've made HA players extremely happy by removing scarred, bringing back burial mounds (with the changes), and bringing back 8v8.

if anet does keep it with these 10 min matches on broken and courtyard.. and this lame AB-style capping system.. AND these other random game modes... i'm sure that i will be quitting GW, and a whole horde of other players will, too.

encore · Jan 20, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

All i say is : get 8v8 back, and old school ha, with 1v1v1 broken, courtyard, and 5 teams hoh, also 10 mins, to prevent forever-holding, and then HA would be really good, and maybe just add some new mpas, based on the same concept as other ones.
You should also bring all maps back (burial + scarred).
Of course, some annoying builds will be back, but i remember at the 8v8 time, there was still a really strong balanced community, now most of the good players went to gvg, or just left guild wars to WoW.
This would probably get some old and good players back to guild wars, and make some people happy.

If you want to keep the 6v6 concept, which is a plague, you should also keep the 6 mins 3-teams-maps, else it would waste time. And if you also want to keep the testing project, put a 5 teams hoh, waiting 12 mins in vault is really boring, same as waiting 6 mins in courtyard.